Barbarossa

Was watchin a documentary about Stalingrad the other day. One of the German 6th Army survivours was saying that when they launched Barbarossa, they discovered that the Russian army was preparing to invade Germany. So, he claims that the attack on Russia was justified in the end.

Of everything i've read, i've not encountered this story before. If anything, it seemed that Stalin would have done anything to avoid the war with Germany. My take on it was that he knew it was going to come but didn't want to provoke it.

Anyone else hear of this before?

I don't know whether German propaganda said so. It is clear that the Soviets were not planning anything of the sort.

There is evidence on both sides that the Soviets were not preparing an invasion. Halder's war diary records finding no signs of Soviet preparations. Zhukov did propose a preemptive attack, but this was in response to German preparations to invade the Soviet Union, and Stalin squashed that idea. Soviet doctrine was also to oppose an invasion with counterattacks and counteroffensives, with the hope of pushing the fighting out of Soviet territory as soon as possible, but that is a tactical and operational matter, not a strategic and diplomatic.

There is no good evidence as to what Stalin might have done in 1942 or later, but he was definitely not planning to invade in 1941.

I agree completely.

Some time ago, the defector who wrote under the name of 'Viktor Suvarov' wrote a book called 'Icebreaker', in which he claimed that the Soviets were preparing an invasion. 'Suvarov' is an entertaining writer, but does not seem to value truth above profit. Unfortunately, despite more modern research and writing, the myth lingers.

It may have been a staple of wartime German propaganda.

In 1939, Germany claimed to have been attacked by Poland. A number of concentration-camp prisoners were dressed in Polish uniforms, shot, and left at a border location to 'back up' this fantasy.

Since the war, no such claims were until a few years ago, when Soviet army defector 'Viktor Suvorov' published _ICEBREAKER_. In this book, Suvorov claimed that Stalin viewed Nazi Germany as an 'icebreaker', that would smash up Poland, the western powers, and so on, thus making it easy for the USSR to conquer all Europe later on.

The first stage of this plan was the Molotov-Rebbentrop Pact of 1939, which unleashed Germany against these powers, while gaining the USSR control of eastern Poland and the Baltic states. Poland and France were destroyed as military powers, along with several minor states.

By 1941, Germany had done as much damage to the west as could be expected, and that was when the second stage of the plan was to be carried out - a massive Soviet invasion of Germany, its allies, and its occupied territories, which was expected to sweep all before it, clear to the Atlantic.

However, there is essentially no evidence of any such Soviet masterplan, nor is there any evidence of Soviet planning for a 1941 attack on Germany other than vague outlines.

This last part is the dog that didn't bark. As Sherlock Holmes once remarked, '_That_ was the curious incident.'

Because after 1941, there was absolutely no reason for the USSR to keep such plans secret. If anything, it was in the interest of the USSR to publicize such plans, even if they had to be faked. It was a matter of some considerable embarassment to the USSR that in 1939-1941, the USSR was practically a German ally, and thus an accomplice in Hitler's crimes.

If it could be shown that the USSR's position was only temporary, and that the USSR had definite intentions of 'doing the right thing' (and attacking Nazi Germany was surely 'the right thing', that could only make the USSR look better and offset the negative impact of the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal.

This was true at _any_ time after 1941, yet (if Suvorov is to be believed) Soviet authorities not only did not reveal the plans to the world, they kept them utterly secret, even after the fall of the USSR and the opening of Soviet military archives to western scholars.

It just does not make sense.

There have been stories and books written about this topic, but nobody has proved it (at least to my satisfaction). I think its reasonable to suggest that the USSR was preparing for an eventual war with germany in terms of taking economic steps, but certainly in 1941 the deployments and behavior of the soviet troops suggested they had no plan for war that year. In fact, they went out of their way and did great harm to themselves by not even taking normal precautions along the border in 1941 in the name of keeping the germans happy.

Many of the books confuse preparing for a war with planning to launch a war. With the events of 1940, there was every reason for the soviet union to prepare (in the sense of increasing strength, moving industries) for a war.

I think one of the books on this from years ago was 'icebreaker'.

Diplomatically in 1941, relations were in decline. I believe that stalin was making demands in eastern europe that the germans were never going to agree to. But rather than preparation for war, it always seemed more typical stalin negotating strategy. Demand more from your partner and use him not giving you want as a reason not to follow through on previous agreements.

I'm not sure about wartime german propoganda. The german interviewed might have been fed a story during the war by the goverment about the USSR planning to invade. Given the phony border incidents involving poland, its very possible.

More than economic, I think. Russia deployed a large contingent of planes and airmen in China, starting in the winter of 1937-38. They were mostly fighter units but also included some bomber squadrons. These forces were pulled out in 1940

It's a common claim by modern neo-Nazi revisionists and apologists, and was part of Nazi propaganda at that time. There is no doubt that Stalin would have conquered Germany if it had been easily accomplished (for example, in the case of a Communist insurrection which resulted in a breakdown of order in Germany), but no way was he going to attack Germany in 1941. His armies had a hard enough time beating tiny Finland, mainly due to the damage his purges had done to the officer corps, and he and his generals were well aware they were in no position to attack a well-prepared Nazi Germany. Quite the opposite; Stalin's only hope was that he could buy time by shipping huge amounts of raw materials to Germany at least until 1942 when his forces might be better prepared for defence.

Would you agree by any chance that you might have also said : '...other than the anticipation that it was about to engage in a more important war in Europe'. I realize it puts an altogether different spin on your original statement, but it would be interesting to know your take on it.

In the sense that 'anticipation' does not not necessarily mean desiring, but does mean predicting, I have no objection to your statement.

There is plenty of evidence that Stalin was hoping not to fight a war against Germany until much better prepared, if at all. There is plenty of evidence that Stalin thought war might be imminent, even if he screwed up on how imminent it was.