NCOs

How did the ranking system work with NCO's during the war? What was the diffrence between an officer and a non commissioned officer?

Cheers

To which armed forces do you refer?

In the Canadian and British forces (Australian, Indian and other Commonwealth forces likely the same), a commissioned officer requires to be saluted by all ranks below.

A non-com can normally call a lesser rank to attention, but no salute. Saluting a non-com would be out of order.

-bg- www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca

Additionally, all Ordinary Ranks (ORs) and NCOs automatically stand at attention when being addressed by a Comissioned Office, until the officer commands them otherwise. (Stand at ease, stand easy, or dismissed.)

It seriously depends on branch and country... (I will speak for the US Army)

Generally, those who lead in the military are broken down into two groups.

Commissioned Officers, those who usually have college degrees, or have proven themselves in combat (2LT Audie Murphy, 1/15th INF, 3rd ID, MOH), these are the people who have legal authority to issue orders... They are 'Big Picture' guys... and have to be called 'sir'

Non-Commissioned Officers, those lower ranks, usually sergeants, staff sergeants, etc, who manage the men on a day to day basis, they ensure that commissioned officer's orders are carried out... They also lead small units on their own... They are not called 'sir'... (unless you are in the Marines)

The fun part is when you get into the 'Technical Sergeant' ranks, usually mechanics and the like, who are paid the same as their NCO counterpart, but are considered to have soft stripes, as they generally do not lead others in combat.

The *requirement* for a college degree is a fairly recent phenomenon. During the pre-war years most officers had one by virtue of the fact that most officers were produced by USMA or ROTC and a 4-year degree came with the program. When the pre-war buildup and then the shooting started that all changed. The Army needed junior officers and they didn't care if they had a degree or not. The various branch OCSs cranked out a bunch of officers sans degrees before any ever saw combat.

I hope you didn't mean to imply a US Army NCO doesn't have the 'legal authority to issue orders.'

An order from a noncommissioned officer is just as much an order as one given by a four-star general. It may come under a different article of the UCMJ (or Article of War in WWII) but failing to obey can still result in lots of practice making big rocks into little rocks.

How big a picture many WWII 2LTs had is a subject open to debate. Not much has changed today :-/

Marines)

'NCOs Make It Happen' was a bumper sticker I saw a while back. That's the truth. Here's an old story that might help illustrate things:

A colonel was instructing a group of officer cadets on how to erect a flagpole. To help him he had a sergeant, six privates, a flagpole, a couple shovels, and some bags of concrete.

The colonel asked the cadets what they thought would be the proper way to put the flagpole up. The cadets made many suggestions on the use of the shovels to dig a hole, how deep the hole should be, how to mix the concrete, how to get the pole in the hole, and all the other various details of erecting a flagpole.

When the cadets had finished with all their well thought out, very detailed, step-by-step answers the colonel told them every one of them was wrong. 'Here's how it's done: Sergeant, erect the flagpole. Let me know when you're done; I'll be at The Club.'

Once out of boot camp Marines don't call NCOs 'sir' It's Corporal or Sergeant or the full title, eg Staff Sergeant Anthrax or Gunnery Sergeant Phlegm. Sometimes it's 'Gunny' or 'Top' depending on the situation, environment, and individuals involved.

The idea of 'hard stripes' and 'soft stripes' or 'technicians' or 'specialists' has been tried numerous times and it has always failed. Even mechanics need leaders. Whether they're called Sergeant, Technician 4th Grade, or Specialist 5 they're still leaders.

... : A non-com can normally call a lesser rank to attention, but no salute. : Saluting a non-com would be out of order.

Saluting a noncom in the US Army will usually draw the response, 'Don't salute me, son, I work for a living.'

The word 'officer' is used more often in British and American ranks than 'on the continent'.

The word 'underofficer' does AFAIK not exist in their military vocabulary, but the French use the word 'sous-officier', the Germans 'Unteroffizier' and we 'onderofficier'.

Even the word 'police officer' in English/American does not mean that that person has a rank of at least 2nd Lieutenant as is the case in the other languages. <this fault I made translating an English text on my exam, but I passed nevertheless.

Regards,

Arie Biemond Middelburg Nl.